Level 4
Statement for The Bible Is Not Our Only Standard
Statement: We Need To Be Led By The Spirit, Focusing On Christ
I thought the comment about those who’ve changed their minds (Brownson, Wolterstorff, and Achtemeier) after making friends with LGBT people was interesting. What struck me is that you turned from there to point out that the Bible is our only standard for faith and practice. Two things struck me:
1. The Bible constantly decenters itself and centers Jesus. So the preamble to the BCO [Book of Church Order – Reformed Church in America] is dangerously close to heresy in elevating scripture over Jesus as the standard for faith and practice.
2. In the context you use it in, the Bible seems to be in contrast to the personal ministry experience of those following the Spirit’s lead. I find this ironic since in Acts 15, in the single most parallel passage about who is included, that the earliest Christians actually practiced a model more similar to Brownson, Wolterstorff, and Achtemeier. Note how they start with personal stories (v. 4), then are challenged by the “pharisees” in their midst to prove it from the Bible (v.5), then hear more personal stories, then the council hears more personal stories (vv. 7-10), and then they get brought back around to the centrality of Jesus (v.11). Then they heard yet more stories of personal connections with ‘outsiders’ (v. 12). Then there is confirmation that it was God at work in those personal connections (v. 14), and finally it was pronounced that the scriptures corroborated what God was doing (v. 15) – note that it was not that the stories agreed with the scripture but that the scripture agreed with the stories. All of that is to say that it’s hard not to see the scriptures ‘agreeing’ (v. 15) with the approach of Brownson, Wolterstorff, and Achtemeier.
Pastor Bill White
Response
It is assumed here, given the Statement’s primary thesis, that the centrality of Christ in verse 11 resolves the question of Acts 15. How does verse 11 resolve that? It does state the centrality of Christ in that both Jews and Gentiles will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus. But does this show that being led by the Spirit, personal experiences resolved the matter more so than Scripture? It seems that the matter is not resolved in Acts 15 until Scripture is quoted in verses 16 and 17.
That brings us back to the position that Scripture ultimately settles the matter. Scripture is the final authority.
The statement sees a certain directionality here, “. . . Note that it was not that the stories agreed with the Scripture but that the Scripture agreed with the stories.” This statement seems to imply that in some sense the stories, that is the personal experiences came first and Scripture is somehow secondary to that. But what is that based on? As far as some kind of corroboration is concerned, verse 15 contains the word “agree”: “And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written . . .” The Greek word translated agree is symphōnos. From this word we get our English word symphony. The term means to be in harmony with. It does not suggest in any way that Scripture is secondary to the personal experience.
If anything, Acts 15 can be read as a listing of personal experiences which define the issue that is at stake. As soon as the Scripture (Old Testament) is quoted the matter is then settled.
Even if one would not read the culmination of the Old Testament quote as settling the matter, the requirement for there to be harmony between what the Apostles were doing and Scripture, this too is an indication that Scripture is the final authority. As Acts 15 stands, as long as we only have the personal experiences of what the Apostles were doing, the matter is not resolved. Once their acts are shown to be in harmony with Scripture, then the matter is resolved. That too positions Scripture as the final authority.
According to mainline Christian theology the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, to say that the Bible defers to Christ is to suggest that there is somehow a conflict between Christ and the Word written by the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is completely of one mind. There is no conflict there.
Revelation 22:18-19 has this warning, “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Isn’t saying that we are to be led by the Spirit in some way that leaves the Bible in a position where it is no longer the final authority, isn’t that essentially adding to or taking away from the Word?
If we are to follow the Spirit’s lead as advised in the statement above, doesn’t that raise the problem that one person will say the Spirit led me to accept same-sex marriage, while the next person would say the Spirit led me to not accept it. Wouldn’t this put us in a position where it would be impossible to say which is correct?
The Jesus Movement of the late ‘60’s and early ‘70’s, probably as a response to various denominations fighting over points of theology, often referred to the phrase, “No creed but Christ.” At Calvin Seminary Dr. Plantinga reflected on that position by asking, which Christ? That is a very valid question. Without the Bible we would not know just who Christ was, nor would we know what God’s will is with respect to same-sex marriage.
Conclusion
Should the church adopt the position that Christ is the authority over and above the Bible? Should the church turn to Christ more so than the Bible when it seeks to determine if it should accept same-sex marriages? Share your thoughts on this in the blog below. After this has been discussed a conclusion will be determined and shared here.
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Index Level 4
Introductory Page: The Bible Is Our Only Standard For Faith And Practice
5 replies on “The Bible Centers On Christ”
Yes Christ first. Christ is the ultimate authority and He challenged those who searched the Scriptures and didn’t recognize God standing right before them. Jesus is the ultimate Word and Scripture is intended to lead us to him. (II Timothy 3:14-15 precedes 3:16) Scripture is contextual and progressive. There is no passage that addresses the Question of same-sex marriages. We project our opinions into Scripture.
Hello, Jerry. Good to hear from you again. Yes, it is certainly true that Christ, our God, is first over a book. He is the ultimate authority. There is a question here, though. How does Christ make His authority known to us? How does He inform us if same-sex marriage is acceptable to Him or not? Doesn’t He do that through the Word? When the Spirit inspired the Word, can’t we trust that it is His will made clear to us? It is also true that the Bible does not explicitly say anything about same-sex marriage. But, how many marriages are there that do not include sex? If we would poll 1,000 married people, how many of them do not, or have not, engaged in sex? So “same-sex marriage” is for all practical purposes a phrase that means the same as “same-sex erotic acts.” If the church has been correct for millennia that the Bible prohibits same-sex erotic acts, then there are in fact passages that effectively address same-sex marriage. Ultimately, that is the question that is in front of us, does the Bible prohibit same-sex erotic acts?
The Spirit is not limited to the Word. The Spirit of Christ inspires people to follow in his steps. Love God and your neighbors. The purpose of the Spirit is not to lead us back to law debates but to loving our neighbors by helping them on their imperfect journeys.
This involves humbly admitting your own imperfections and moral blind spots.
I began my ministry in 1967 at the height of the Pentecostal movement- all about speaking in tongues (direct from the Spirit) needing only a translation direct from the Spirit. You could’t get closer to God than this! If you wanted to know what God wanted you to do or say, someone with a word of knowledge would offer it. And the rest would have to weigh it and make a decision. Next to impossible! I was “slain” in the Spirit; could speak in tongues… I never made decisions based on: “it seemed good to the Spirit and to me to….”
I spent a Saturday with two brothers in Christ connected to the congregation, discussing and debating all the passages involved in the Pentecostal movement (I was seen as a friend and supporter who could perhaps be recruited to join them, and i saw some good things in what they said but when I differed with them on an understanding of the particular text, their response to me was “the Holy Spirit tells us that we have the right interpretation” and my response was ” You leave me in left field and you put me in left field arguing with God.
Acts 15 portrays a debate of this nature. The Jewish Christians want the Gentiles to be circumcised ( a blood ceremony- only for the males) and the church leaders say that ‘it seems good to the Holy Spirit and to us’ and in that pull rank and state that they have God on their side for saying no to the Jews and to the Gentiles to stop doing three things that connected them to their former gods- eating meat with blood still in it that had been given to the gods and so connected them with the gods; not to have sex and give their sperm to the gods through the priestesses; the Council uses the term porneia. translated as sexual immorality. The acts purpose was the same as with the blood viz. to connect to the god. In the old testament Onan refused to have sex with his brothers widow to raise a descendant for his brother, as was prescribed, and instead onanised, spilt his seed on the ground. Life was in the sperm.
The decision of the Council did not solve the problem. The delegates sent to announce the decision had a big argument. The gentiles would have been ok with it but the decision ultimately led to the separation of the Jewish and Gentile Christians and led to great controversy in the church about signs and wonders Paul related to the assembly in Jerusalem as proof that the Spirit was accepting them
I need to also mention the Jehovah Witnessed who believe strongly that the life is in the blood and with that blood, personality, character traits and for that reason refuse all blood transfusion (but are sometimes overruled by the courts when minors are involved).
On a separate related point, are known from separating faith from science. I can talk much about that but in this context it is also relevant
We have almost totally ignored the Heidelberg Cathechism when it states that there two books that God has provided.
Psalm 19 begins with this declaration : The heavens DECLARE the glory of God; The Skies PROCLAIM the work of his hands; day after day they POUR FORTH SPEECH; night after night they DISPLAY KNOWLEDGE. They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them; yet their voice goes out into all the earth; their Words to the end of the world!
Have you tabulated and dealt with and studied this book and have you grasped what it teaches about marriage sexuality maleness, femaleness etc. Have you sought to rhyme the two books; one from God and one from man. I won;t go into details and leave it at saying that unless you come to grips with all the things that the cosmos reveals you will end up with unworkable unlovable solutions
And then this and I will quit.
Jesus never knew the Bible. He knew the law and the prophets, the law and the wisdom books.
Bible simply means the book! It is in our version composed of 66 books. The Roman Catholic canon has more books like the Apocrypha.,There are False books. There are more gospels rejected than accepted.
What we say, quite often, the Bible says is theology , human thinking on the literature that we have. We compare scripture with scripture and then draw a conclusion. When the Heidelberg Catechism say that thee are two books, it is clear that the creation is the first one and that the second one is all that has commanded us in these Scriptures and what do they say and the comes the Apostles Creed which is the statement made by church leaders declaring that God is ONE but Triune. That Jesus is fully God and fully man even for the 300 years before this Jesus was considered a man who seemed to godlike. In the gospels Jesus asked the people Why do you call me god when you too are gods.
Peace!
To ask whether we should follow the words of Jesus or the guidance (words of the Holy Spirit is to violate the teaching of the Athanasian Creed. When Jesus speaks, the Spirit speaks and the Father speaks. If their words seem to be the one contrary with the other. then we need to remember that the words we read had human authors and the Bible is clear that inspiration received by the prophets is often misunderstood and the Bible cautions us always to test the words that prophets speak. And so it is said that a true prophet’s words come to pass.
Circumcision was for males only Females ( except today many females are cruelly circumcised to keep them from having sex enjoyably . Men could have a thousand wives and concubines, take a second wife (only he had to make sure the first did not lose her marital rights. So much in the Bible has to do with the status not accorded to women. She is the property of man and everything said in the Scriptures about with guaranteeing that man receives his dominant position. There is no Biblical view of marriage in which a woman is free from being dominant and the man free from needing to be sure that the act reinforces male dominace.